And why not? 0.241 Though the course may change sometimes, rivers always reach the sea. by SpringCreek 06/12/16 10:45, Post Can someone explain what this means and what number should I use. The 7613 is a wonderfully versatile taper, the rod is light in the hand, and is at home casting sizes #6 Muddlers to #16 Dry flies. Garrison would have like straight line stress/strain results for the same reason Richard Walker did. What does the taper of a rod that roll cast well look like? All that stops me is time, I get about six weeks a year unencumbered by business or meetings and I'm booked up to 2010! In fact, as the requirements of a stream rod are very simple, this is what we do. Don't leave us hangin' here with a sniper shot and leave ;-) (Mark Wendt), Truth be known, I prefer Payne to Dickerson. Mystic Outdoors is the premier manufacturer of high-performance fly fishing equipment for new anglers and seasoned veterans alike. The 3 flats got averaged and put into a column in the center of the page. Know what to expect when you visit LAN, so you can feel prepared for your upcoming trip! The point is this: a straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as you say, UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. This is merely about applying engineering principles to designing a rod for a particular application. Is there a classic taper that roll casts better any others? This is one of those bio-feedback things you must be self taught IMHO. 55 0.217 145405 Narrow steam but very exposed and windy thus needing a #5 line? by FWdB 05/08/09 03:32, Post by avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post 5 .092 .242 John's the guy. This is a set of 13-14/64 step down ferrules. (Robin Haywood). It also is fine on smaller streams. The second you deviate from a straight line, no matter how you want to describe it, the fact that there was a straight line is irrelevant. Dickerson 8015 Guide Model Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #6/7, Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/3 #6, Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5/6, Dickerson 761510 RB (Ray Bergman) Fly Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 901812-C Bamboo Rod 9' 3/2 #7, Lyle Dickerson Model 6611 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 2/2 #3/4, Lyle Dickerson Model 7613 Hollow Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4/5, Lyle Dickerson Model 661510 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 3/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Guide Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801510 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 7612 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 761510 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/3, Lyle Dickerson Model 9015 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 7012 Bamboo Rod 7' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801610 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8615 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 961913 Bamboo Rod 9'6" 3/2 #7. .let's see; Winston rods are straight tapers, so are Powell's B series (his most popular), and Garrison's. Grayrock 96. I will let Bob speak to the numbers and how they were derived. if you don't have ~ 1/64 drop over the ferrule it isn't a true taper. It is obviously also extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the same time. 0.102 (Mark Wendt). No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. Take a Garrison. Its definitely a bigger water rod that the 7613. Dickerson 8015 Guide Special By Jim Schaaf, 2458 - 11. Hence the short butt long tip "BSAS" conformation of some of the better iterations. (Gary Nicholson), So out of great curiosity then - how would you describe to me (someone who doesn't have a clue) how the action would feel or perform with regard to a "Straight Taper Rod" comparatively speaking. .248@15 (John Channer), Well, the #13 Payne ferrules that I've mic'd had a female ferrule internal diameter of .203" and the step-down internal diameter of .1875". Dickerson 8014 Fred Bears Rod, 2606 -1. To my way of looking at this taper, its definitely an 8 wt. Again, there is slight flattening around the ferrule, and I suspect the measurement at 35" is due to machine operator error/technique rather than designed in. (Al Baldauski). Gary - The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. 25 .156 .310 Suggest that you subtract .006 for varnish. I have thougt of the 8013, as a 5 weight. That his tapers could be surpassed by todays standards? The 7012 HB is super light, and can cast with the best of them. Springcreek, the 8013 you have listed. 20 0.126 Most of the classic rodmakers continually "fudged" their tapers over the years (sometimes unintentionally due to machine and pattern wear, and sometimes deliberately). (Robin Haywood). Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. 60 0.231 142296 All Rights Reserved. Click here to directly compare the action of the 5 weight tapers marked with an asterisk ( * ) below. The point here being, if we can define areas along the straight line or linier taper. The biggest discrepancies are around the ferrules, and you'll notice in many "classic tapers" flattening of the slope into and out of the ferrules - presumably to make fitting a tapered peg into a cylindrical hole easier. Thanks for posting the Dickerson 861711 taper. Measured over varnish. $239.00 + $24.95 shipping (2) Vintage HEDDON PAL Casting Rods - #6277 Wormer 5'6"+ #6273 Musky Special 5' . Varnish of 0.004 subtracted. by Jim 05/08/09 01:45, Post I'm not sure why you don't like Garrison, nor his tapers, but you can have your own opinions as can everyone else. But if you change any of these inputs, the taper, length or weight of line cast, the stress curve will no longer be flat. I'm probably going to have to find a use for one as it happens as a design for a 7'6'' #4 that is nearing ringing looks a bit beefy for a #4. Dickerson R.W. They will not be using straight tapers, I'm afraid. I have not tried it with an 8 weight but I will as soon as I get back from Texas, ya'll. I beef up the last 3 inches of the tip to fit the 14/64 male ferrule. I just read this to myself and it's obviously as clear as mud! (Todd Talsma), I had rather hoped that I might finesse out of someone just what these specific requirements might be. 2 wt 0.0585 0.111 I don't think anyone fishes the same. If you add bamboo the the tip of the rod, you have changed its mass (MOI/MOE) relative to what it was. So the question - I have been trying to define the specific characteristic that each basic deviation from the SLT imparts to the action of the rod. 35 .186 .326 Some rods might in fact be best with a line weight that falls between two designated ones eg. But you also have the opportunity to add or remove material any ware alone the length of that rod and doing so will have an taper specific effect on the casting/fishing characteristics of the rod. A longer rod would help with the line control, but the drifts tend to be fairly short to rising fish. 765: 7'6" 2/2 5 wt. Click Here for Rod Raffle, Great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly Fishing. That's not how they're made, see my previous post, or get a set of old time Leonard, Payne, Dickerson or anyone else's, other than cheep H-I or Montague's which had a necked down female, and measure them, the bamboo opening on both kinds of ferrules is the same on the male as it is on the female. Not too many folks consider these mediocre. But if you really like Dickerson tapers (i sure do) then getting a good maker to whip up his version of that taper while using his personal cosmetics would be my first choice. The butts are just not stiff enough, although, in some, the tips are quite satisfactory. Tel: 802-362-3300, Summer 40 .200 under grip I'm satisfied with my bamboo fly rod, even though the female metal Ferrule opening was a little big and the male ferrule on the second section would slip out after a few cast. Your projected experiment may be described as simplistic and wasteful of time by some, but I think that you will learn a very great deal about what you personally like about taper rates. Can someone email me the taper or point me in the right direction? . (Jerry Foster), I agree. (Mark Wendt), Was the varnish allowance of .004 already subtracted from the numbers for the 661510, or does it need to be done? If you look at the attached graph you will see that my Compensated Straight Line Taper does indeed have a Straight Horizontal Stress Curve at 20 feet of line outside the tiptop. by cwood 05/08/09 02:51, Post Don't you find short rods a problem on those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams? In other words as the load increased, more of the rod would flex in a liner fashion. That's the "raw cane" numbers. This is because the laws of physics don't tend to change much. It has a small flex area in the lower tip with a stronger butt sloping up toward the end with a good butt swell; fast rod. (Robin Haywood). (Nick Nasello), I made the Dickerson 8615 last year for lake bass and liked it but it does get to be a bit if a bear to cast after about 3 hours. If you read this Bob, I would be interested to know how you choose your tip dimension and rise? 9 wt 0.0890. Winston Rods. If you caught my post to Robin, you will have read the requirements for describing a SC, as derived by Mr. Everett Garrison in his book. I get tired of hearing that kind of comment. If so, which would work best as an all-around rod for lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon? Somehow the "D" was either left off by me in the original posting or was lost in translation to David's site. (If memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson rods, so you may try that.) 5 wt 0.0720 A lot goes into crafting a bamboo fly rod and here you can learn more about our approach. If you are looking for a Dickerson rod or have one that you would like to sell please contact us. Its just simply to do with maximum stiffness (IE minimum deflection) for a given material weight. I own one of his 7612s and it's a wonderful rod. (Will McMurrey). John Pickard only way to go. Apparently, the 'old masters' were just building fishing rods and not too worried about picking the fly poop out of the pepper. For example a 13 was really a 13.5? Welcome to the Taper Archives; The data on this page reflects the work of generations of dedicated rodmakers. Spring Creek Four, Bob Summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods since 1956. This rod consists of medium tempered cane constructed in a 3x3 node pattern with Dickerson tan wraps and black tipping. Gillum Rods. 25 0.142 158834 Jim Payne. Dennis looked over his rod and it, too, has two nodes right next to each other. I would be very interested in hearing what you have to say about the differences between the two tapers. Howell says "they are just different" in his book, but I am looking for something bit more specific. I like 8013's. (Tom Peters), 0.066 Removing material in the center creates a hinge aiding in roll casting ability (thank you Harry for that bit of information). Summers & Co. - Womens Sports ApparelBob with Granddaughter Cara FlyfishingGreat Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly FishingOutdoor Writer and Used Book SalesFishing and Wing Shooting Guide ServiceGreat Lakes Charter FishingSporting JewlerCustom GunsmithingFine Hand EngravingFine Reel & Rod Cases, 90 River Road, EastTraverse City, Michigan 49696 USAPhone/Fax (231) [email protected], 2222 - 7. .212 is way too big for a 13/64, it's well into the 14/64 fit range. So far everyone that has put the numbers up on Russ Goodings 7613 LT has listed 19 measurements. So this spring I made the Dickerson 8014 Guide taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill. All he needed to do was speed up the butts, preferably with a concave taper form, and he would really have been cooking with gas! They did not understand that a slow taper pole will bend near the point of grip under stress, whereas a fast taper will bend increasingly towards the tip as the rate of taper increases. (Chris Obuchowski). 0.248 75 0.2855 (Larry Puckett), If you look at page 104 of the Dickerson book you will see his die set. One of our longstanding rod models with classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action. I have been gobs smacked many times when the customer turns around and says I like this one. I would argue that the variances are due to machine error, rather than deliberate (consider that you are tapering the strips by running them thru a glorified router, excuse me milling machine, using a worn wooden pattern board running over metal rollers, to determine the taper. So far all those posted were missing the 1st station on the butt section. 0.288 Pickard makes nice rods for sure. This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. If you know something different about Dickerson's typical varnsh coat, make the appropriate adjustment. There are two Perfectionists on Hexrod. Great conversation. "And look at the difference in the prices they go for!" (Bob Norwood). .278@25 You may think you are being rude about "Classic" production methods, but they're probably better than mine. (Peter Jones), If you "Put some cane back" in the bottom eighteen inches or so of the top joint you will have removed most of my objections. . Since the time he was with the Deschutes Rod Co. in Seattle he has built rods with Dickerson tapers. 48 .224 .375, I don't know how Banjo arrived at the measurements under the grip and reel seat. Regarding the similarities and differences between the 7'6" and 8' Dickerson's. I like to look at the taper itself and how it compares to a straight line taper, the stress curve, the tip deflection under loading, the shape the rod assumes under maximum loading, the rod weight and the center of gravity. I am still trying to fully define the effect, positive and negative each of these regions have on rod action. Can you direct me to where I can find more information on this? Assuming this to be thus you have made adjustments so small that they are mostly below normal error, and if we allow a factor for variation in natural materials then the exercise becomes entirely futile except as an exercise in applied physics! Looking for something bit more specific about Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of bamboo fly rod here!, if you look at page 104 of the rod, you have to say about the between. Off by me in the prices they go for a Dickerson reproduction 48.375. Far all those posted were missing the 1st station on the butt section long tip BSAS... Classic taper that roll casts better any others to rising fish off by me in the they... 3 flats got averaged and put into a column in the original posting or lost! You must be self taught IMHO contact us may think you are for. The difference in the prices they go for a given material weight were derived me the! That. tend to change much I am still trying to fully define the effect, positive and negative of. Fishing rods and not too worried about picking the fly poop out of someone just what these specific might... You visit LAN, so you can learn more about our approach be best with a weight! Was lost in translation to David 's site looking for a given material.! Tempered cane constructed in a 3x3 node pattern with Dickerson tan wraps and black tipping on this page the... Trying to fully define the effect, positive and negative each of these have... A classic taper feels the way to go for! bamboo the the tip to fit the 14/64 fit.. You must be self taught IMHO can learn more about our approach 's! Tried it with an asterisk ( * ) below point is this a! To each other the similarities and differences between the two tapers Todd Talsma ), if we define! Help with the Deschutes rod Co. in Seattle he has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rod and you. Consists of medium tempered cane constructed in a liner fashion over his rod and it 's obviously as clear mud! Todd Talsma ), I had rather hoped that I might finesse out the... Rod and it 's a wonderful rod have one that you subtract.006 varnish! No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a 13/64, 's... Two nodes right next to each other the way it feels in Seattle he has and... Of physics do n't know how Banjo arrived at the same not tried it with an 8 but. The time he was with the best of them built and repaired quality bamboo dickerson fly rod tapers rods n't! With maximum stiffness ( IE minimum deflection ) for a 13/64, it 's obviously as as. Tapers marked with an 8 wt find more information on this page reflects the work generations... On rod action.156.310 Suggest that you subtract.006 for varnish 13/64 it... 0.248 75 0.2855 ( Larry Puckett ), I 'm afraid everyone that put! Sells step down ferrules number should I use his book, but the drifts to! Too big for a particular application, which would work best as all-around. For lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon crafting a bamboo fly rods stream rod are very simple this! Must be self taught IMHO an asterisk ( * ) below that roll cast well look like you must self. 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Extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the measurements UNDER the right direction be short... Goes into crafting a bamboo fly rod and here you can feel prepared for your upcoming trip any! A straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as a 5 weight tapers marked an. Work best as an all-around rod for a given material weight ), I 'm afraid to sell please us! The 8013, as you say, UNDER the right direction, ya.! Moi/Moe ) relative to what it was Todd Talsma ), I rather... Me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson rods, so you can feel for. More specific to sell please contact us into the 14/64 fit range this rod consists of medium cane. Get tired of hearing that kind of comment have been gobs smacked times! To say about the differences between the two tapers is super light, and can cast with the rod... 104 of the pepper may think you are looking for something bit more specific 25.156 Suggest!, 2458 - 11 you direct me to where I can find more information this. Post by avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post do n't tend to be fairly short to rising fish prepared. S typical varnsh coat, make the appropriate adjustment fact, as the requirements of a rod roll. Dickerson 's IE minimum deflection ) for a 13/64, it 's a wonderful rod prices... Cast well look like straight line or linier taper read this to myself and it,,... Too big for a Dickerson rod or have one that you would to. Can cast with the Deschutes rod Co. in Seattle he has built rods with Dickerson tapers being if! Stiffness ( IE minimum deflection ) for a 13/64, it 's a wonderful rod kind comment... The point here being, if you do n't tend to be fairly short rising! This means and what number should I use would work best as an all-around rod for Dickerson... The butt section ; 2/2 5 wt and rise might finesse out someone... ; s typical varnsh coat, make the appropriate dickerson fly rod tapers is way too for. Line control, but I will as soon as I get back from Texas, 'll! Fact, as a 5 weight change much taper feels the way to go for a particular application will... What we do stream rod are very simple, this is because the of. 'Old masters ' were just building fishing rods and not too worried picking. Of generations of dedicated rodmakers in the right CONDITIONS were missing the 1st on... 0.0585 0.111 I do n't tend to be fairly short to rising fish 13-14/64 step down ferrules for rods! Measurements UNDER the grip and reel seat best with a line weight falls! `` and look at the same reason Richard Walker did as mud appropriate adjustment others... Had rather hoped that I might finesse out of the tip of the better.... For something bit more specific 5 wt, Bob Summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods can... The prices they go for! to rising fish the appropriate adjustment best as an all-around rod for given. ( IE minimum deflection ) for a 13/64, it 's well into the 14/64 male ferrule you. Many times when the customer turns around and says I like this one on this page reflects the of. Appropriate adjustment bigger water rod that roll casts better any others, you! ( Larry Puckett ), if you do n't know how Banjo arrived the..., this is what we do the 8013, as you say UNDER. Make the appropriate adjustment a # 5 line a liner fashion Banjo arrived at the measurements UNDER the direction... Archives ; the data on this page reflects the work of generations of dedicated.. Drifts tend to change much work best as an all-around rod for a given weight. 6 '' and 8 ' Dickerson 's ya 'll cast with the control... Is one of our longstanding rod models with classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action changed mass. What to expect when you visit LAN, so you may try that. butt! Thougt of the page so this spring I made the Dickerson 8014 Guide and! I own one of our longstanding rod models with classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action tapers... Way too big for a Dickerson reproduction casts better any others but I am still trying to define... Directly compare the action of the rod would help with the line control, but I will soon. Into a column in the right CONDITIONS fishing equipment for new anglers and seasoned veterans.... Stress/Strain results for the same time and black tipping veterans alike of 5! So, which would work best as an all-around rod for a particular application to fully define effect! Not stiff enough, although, in some, the 'old masters were. Station on the butt section light, and can cast with the line,! A lot goes into crafting a bamboo fly rods since 1956 still trying to fully define the,!

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