We were afraid a bigger pest i.e. Id prefer to avoid power tools and stick with as much a natural look as possible. Use a rake to level the pea gravel surface. Too narrow of a space to use a tamper, so yeah, just set the stone dust down with water, hose on shower setting. YES, its supposed to be fun and tiringyoure doing it right! The material beneath the flagstone may settle. Do you know if one can expect the haze to slowly fade away over time? After excavating the area, pour in about three inches of a base layer of crushed rock. And just fill the joints wit local soil. Water concrete or mortar is bad because it may seem solid, after it sets upbut it set up watery. Id use the saw, rather than a drill, because with the saw you can make it continuous, getting the whole thing to drain and would probably be fast to dobut I suppose you could drill one hole every 10 or something like that. So happy to have found this, as the environmental approach appeals to me, especially on the lake (or on Earth!). And to account for waste and mistakes. Just dont! Extremely helpful. I noticed almost the same effect/thing on the dirt in the garden. This can trouble novices and pros alike. Brett in Millersville,PA. Using decomposed granite will help the pea gravel set and not move when people walk on it. The red, being more rare, is sometimes available in bagged form, in garden centers, but not in bulk at the mason supply places or quarries (where I usually get my screenings, because as a contractor, Im usually buying at least a yard.). You simply sweep more screenings into the joint and life is good, with no great worries at all. Boil a pot of water, to kill weeds. Its just too big. I want to re-fill the joints of my existing dry laid bluestone patio. Its been working for me. Perhaps you could take a smaller piece of stone, create a mosaic up top of thatand use the resultant piece as a smaller paving stone, set on stone dust, among your dry laid flagstones. Anyway, theres many diy articles on this website, which many people have found helpful over the years. This can wreck the flat surface you are making. Then, I would indeed use stone dust in between the joints, rather than sand. Small voids may form. More importantly, are you overfilling your joints? Stays in place. Clay base, with about 4 of 1/4 clear gravel, followed by 1 of screening before putting down 20 X 20 patio slabs with next to nothing for gaps. so my first thought was ants.I have never seen rodents leave sand piles atop a flagstone, so Im still leaning towards ants. Ive never studied it, never used it for a client and been unable to study its utility over the yearswhich is a major omission on my part. Also, I lived in the Poconos for more than 20 years and at one time not far from your town. So I use a 4 foot level. I am Gonna use the bluestone dust we got from the quarry. Use a roller to compact the gravel, which also helps with stability. How much does polymeric sand cost? A metal edging or pt lumber border will look better than a plastic border.stone can be used. I recommend washing out the rest of the sand. A little bit more, less than a quarter of a ton for the joints. Any suggestions to avoid this? You could a) hire a professional. If not, some elbow grease and a plastic scrub brush is the next thing Id try. Leave the hammer drill in the shed. I believe there are different kinds of sand and one of them might work. I probably have to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in front of the cinderblock for visual appeal. What if we just remove some and place screenings on top of sand? Privacy Policy. In this he mixes 1 part water, 2 parts cement and 7 parts peagravel,(or was that 2 water 1 cement) but no sand. Now what? The stone have been nicely installed, Im hoping to be able to leave them in place and simply scrape the gaps. Widen the cracks. Naturally it failed. I originally planned to fill with screenings, but someone at Lowes told me to considered using polymeric dust to fill the space between stones because of weeds. Dont cover that steak in big mac sauce. Also, are their any loose flagstones? I can't find a straight answer anywhere, so I figured I'd ask here before I spend time doing something that might not work: Will polymeric sand help lock in the gravel joints, or will it just sort of fill the space? 1. It appears that they ripped 2x 6 in half so that they had 1.5x 2-3/4 material. Also, Id wait at least 2 weeks before powerwashing over new jointsand at least that long, more like a month, before using acid. Do you think I should cement the tread on top of the cement riser? A professional, who will talk with you on the phone, and walk you through the process of laying flagstone, repairing flagstone, or any other such situation? Its a simple affair, really. Best answer: just use gravel. No acrylic, plastic, or polymers are required in your project. Id wager that it would remove the poly sand hazeuse proper precautionsif it does work, you will have little bits of plastic flaking off and disintegrating, which will then need to be cleaned up again in turn. 2) level out the stones, one at a time, using the crushed stone to raise them up, as needed. As long as were less than 1.5 inches or so, than its really not a problem. But it should work well enough, yes. This site is a great service. You can choose from various materials like plastic edging or metal borders. We did buy poly sand, but can exchange it for the screening. It looks pretty cool as well. One last question on screenings is this something Home Depot carries? Lay the 2x down on top of the trench and hammer down to tamp. Worms? Thanks for such a thorough reply. Only time cement is used in the joint material is if the patio has a proper concrete foundation. Each unit of our concrete block is approximately 3,000 lb in weight and 5' x 2'-5" x 2'-6" in dimensions. What I use is stone dust AKA screenings. Sure, if you have 3 gaps between your stones you could fill them with a couple of river rocks, and the decomposed on top/around the rive ricks. Your email address will not be published. Not my first choice, and if a customer is insisting on using it, I probably will not take the job. The good thing about stone dust is it is just barely bound up, with the stone fines. Meanwhile, I have little desire to sell my clients an experimental thing like this, when my method works so well. Would you do a combination something? Sounds like a winner, right? Adding fines to this will firm it up a bit, but it may still not be ideal, as the decorative gravel is rounded, not angular. Purchase screenings at a landscape supply store or at a quarry. Also, do you have any mortar that you prefer over another? The contractor convinced us to use small stones (small flagstone pieces) in between. Clean gravel means it contains no fine materials, all chunks of about three quarters of an inch in size. I live in the the finger lakes region of New York. I just installed a natural stone patio and was researching poly sand for filling the cracks when I came across your article. Not too wetjust wet enough to be sticky. To solve this issue, apply WD-40 after wiping off the bottom of the tamper. I live in Seattle, and Im installing a flagstone pathway in my lawn. hose it down again, sweep of the excessand when you walk away from it you want your stone dust to be a little bit lower than the top of your flagstone. Stones will stay in place if done correctly. see if it works. Run a vibrating plate compactor over the entire area. https://www.rmtnlandscape.com/products/flagstone/1131-colorado-red-tumbled-steppers2. I'm putting in a new patio, and we decided to space the pavers about 2 inches apart and fill the gaps with pea gravel, mostly to hide how poorly we leveled the subbase. And yes, I do prefer tighter joints, but dg should work for 2 joints. Love the info. Greetings! However, it will reduce permeability, causing water runoff. As such, when maintenance issues do arise, you probably want to call a pro and have them deal with it. I am concerned the dust will not prevent the flagstone from walking towards the unanchored edge. Ive been researching what material to install between the flagstone I just set. My plan was to go with a fairly tight joint for the whole patio but then get even tighter for the 5 feet or so immediately close to the pool.in the end, I think the entire patio got a half inch joint, maybe more like three eighths to a quarter inch, for the few feet closest to the pool, but no major difference, just a smidge tighter right by the pool. Check out http://www.stepables.com Then again, if you wanted to plant regular moss (not irish moss, which isnt a actually a moss) then you wouldnt even need to add any soil, as the moss will readily grow right on the stone dust joints. Spread sand over the surface of the concrete and pea gravel. If you look at the flagstone patios and flagstone walkways in my galleries, youll see they all follow this rule. Good, Im glad my articles helped you make the right call about polymeric sand . I might get a bag and experiment with a small section, maybe at the start of the driveway. Was wondering if I could add polymeric sand to the gaps with gravel to help fight them. Either fulling the joints with soil and seeding, or, during the excavtion Ill carefully remove the sodthe grass itself plus 2 of soil and roots along with it. It did say that clean up was with ammonia, so isit stray cat proof? Paver set works well. Try https://www.envirobond.com/professional/envirosand/ Organic binding material. We had a pro lay a flagstone floor. My search for this is not yielding good information. Have you ever done the cracks in a more creative artistic way? This is a torch that is used to weld and cut steela blow torch. You may also want to rerake and level the stones that are on the walkway every 2-3 . We have been using an imported heavy clay loam soil to pack and set the flagstone on, which itself sits on native gravel. As easy to install as regular sand, almost. An inch of slope per four feet is right, water should flow. It is helpful to see you are not a fan of the polymeric sand and the reasons why. Metal is more durable, but no matter what border you choose, it should be at least 1/2 inch above the ground outside the perimeter. And we used poly sand back in the day when I worked for other guys too, and all the landscape contractors who Ive worked for back then, and whom Ive met and talked to sincethe answer is always the sameyou just cant clean it up. Will smaller flagstones be stable, or do you need to use larger slabs? Early in my flagstone patio career I used to try and keep the screenings in my flagstone joints as close to level with the stones as possible, but with foot traffic, wind and rain, the joints seem to naturally level off to around an average of one eighth of an inch shy of flush with the flagstone.. I do think I may need to cut a center trench prior to adding the sand and screening to add a drainage pipe in case of future settling? If youve already done so, I wouldnt sweat it too much. I think Ill try the screening stuff. Typical Time Required: Man Hours will vary according to volume of stone purchased, design and specifications. Very glad I could help One stone at a time, no plastic needed. Then top off with extra stone dust, hose down, etc. IMO this is a bad idea. The more activity that occurs on top of the gravel, the more likely it will become displaced when someone walks on it. Removing the grout is going to be a horrendous job. You can choose from various materials like plastic edging or metal borders. This, I believe, answers your need for a walkway where most of the gravel stays in place, yet is still permeable. Thanks. Are there certain colors light or dark? Common does not mean good. Well obviously thats absurd. Results may varypolymeric sand is not always easy to fix.. Hi Devin, greetings from colorado. There just isnt any eye appeal to it and was wondering if one could put flagstone over the concrete sidewalk and if so how would you secure it to the concrete and what would you fill the cracks with? I had a flagstone patio laid 2 years ago. Oh and 5. the environment.This stuff is not good for our eco system, our planet, beloved mama earth. It looses its gravel texture, it just ceases to be gravel.looking like a cross between a rice crispy teat and black-topbut looking nothing like a gravel walkway. And that is your preference? I addressed the issue of weeds and dry laid flagstone here As it states in the article, personally, weeds between flagstones dont bother me all that muchand if the weeds really are that bad, then a bit of boiling water will dispatch with them nicely. Ideally a pea gravel patio should have 3" base rock and 1" actual pea gravel. You also have to be very careful that the joint is filled all the way, and also make sure that there is no material left on top of the paving units, before you hose down. Seee this post here on sand cement or gravel. My paver patio, installed by a previous owner, had no base at all. Devin, Im looking to refill gaps in a flagstone patio that are pretty larger ranging form 1/2 to 2 inches. I intend to lay one 12 x 5 long 2 inch thick tread on top of the cinder block. Thank you very much. The couple times where i left joints that big, they got filled in with grass. I have tried poly sand (with the correct amts of watering)but find that the sand forms a crust, other areas may be soft and mushy, and if I dig down it is not solid. The stones are fairly thick, 2-3thanks. The site where Im putting the flagstone is all sand, although a mixture of crushed stone and sand has been down for several years to allow us to walk and even drive over the area in wet conditions. Quikrete Assorted All-Purpose Gravel 50 lb. About ground cover for in between your stones.theres a few good options out there, like Irish moss (not really a moss) and thyme and others. My concern is two fold. With 18 years experience in the field, a comprehensive knowledge on the subject of natural stone hardscapes, and a history of teaching and helping others, I am your Hardscape Helper. Having said all that, I still prefer to fit pattern flagstone more tightly, quarter inch to eighth an inchon a recent 400 square foot patio that we built we had eighth inch gaps.. I first started seeing this stuff about fifteen years ago. good luck and let me know how it goesmaybe you can teach me something on the subject , Hi Devin, your blog on polymeric sand was very helpful. Soil then, comes in many types: Hummus, sand, silt, clay, gravel. Good luck! Is this just added polymer binder (plastic)? If the flagstones shift underfoot then you are going to want to get them stable first, before planting anything between them. It also creates a creamier, stickier mix that a lot of guys prefer. Will they all sink to the bottom over time or will the constant tire traffic keep pushing the larger stones back in to the fines, keeping things firm? Very helpful, thanks. Theres environmental impact happening. Thank you Devin! The layer will be the base of the chip driveway and should be able to withstand the weight of a vehicle. If you have cold winters where the ground freezes, then 6 inches compacted base (4 inches is usually enough, provided compaction and grading are handled properly). We have had successful installations at James Madison's Montpelier, the Arkansas Governors Mansion, Colonial Williamsburg and most recently at Thomas Jefferson's Monticello. We do have what is called "shaker sand" which is a combination of sharp sand with some pea gravel mixed in (pea gravel that was smaller than normal and was "screened out" from the normal . Where are you in PA? Hi helpful article- thank you. I have 3-4 inches of compacted base on top of clay, then 1-2 inches of stone dust and 1.5-2 inch thick limestone. We have paver sand i the joints now. Pea gravel is a kind of rock gravel that's usually characterized as small and rounded. The pea gravel will do fine imo. 1. plastic grid tiles. Just wondering what we should do about the paver sand underneath. As it stands now, even a 20% improvement will satisfy them. The slab is about four inches thick so concrete ran under the wood dividers and there is an irregular floor to my trenches. Organic materials will not compact enough to support vehicle traffic. They get slippery. We live in Ontario and I am almost done with my flagstone landing. Thanks! The base is stone dust, by the way, not sand. Sorry! But sand wont help and if you do not want to do it proper to begin withthen what you already have is probably fine. I have a full time job and a sheep farm and it is amazing how many people want free food just because I have a farm. I set my stones on a gravel base (crushed limestone), then a bed of crushed granite. Thank you for the advice tho! The flagstone are mainly grey from age. Clay subsoil can compact and sometimes stay fairly stablebut usually, it will settle and heave over the years, sometimes leaving you a fairly level patio, just with a bit of character. I found your article very interesting i was already going to use screenings but was still researching and i came accross this. I had heard it was okay but am now sorry I did not check further. And this is purely speculative on my partdo not blame me if something goes wrong. Its easy to overlook certain simple devices that make it easier to go about your day as a Why Are Houses In Florida Made Of Stucco? Thanks so much! Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox. He gave me samples of two kinds of much smaller type stone to mix with the pea gravel to see if that would solve it. Just an aesthetic issue. Just sweep the decomposed granite into the cracks between the stones, then turn on the shower to set the DG/stone dust into place. But okay, if youre going to live with what you have then yea, stone dust is a much better option than poly sand. Theres white screeningswhich is more a cream/off white color. Some areas actually need it more than once a year I live in Connecticut, and parts of my patio and walkways dont get much sunlight. it will likely stay glued to itself.but the bricks or stone that it is set amongstthese will not be clean surfaces. Pea gravel is highly desirable as it is versatile and cost-effective. Comment *document.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "ab7c4abf609fa1ed15dbe4a1e48f5b44" );document.getElementById("b69840f237").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Devine Escapes is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. Any garden center or landscape supply place should have what you are looking for. Here in NE Ohio, limestone dust is all that is readily available. If you take your time with repeated sweepings and hosings, then, when rain does come, the decomposed granite will be set into the joints already and any loose bits will have already come loose. Yes, the material I saw at the quarry very close to my house was just the very fine dust. Stone dust, for life. If the foundation is dry laid, repair using dry laid methods/if the foundation is cement based, repair with cementious materials. Metal is more durable, but no matter what border you choose, it should be at least 1/2 inch above the ground outside the perimeter. Then we mixed a ratio of 2 parts mortar to 1 part pea gravel. The local product I found looks identical to yours. I also have a pea gravel area (about 20X20') that I want to stabilize. If you do not have any orange based cleaner, then try using a bit of vinegar along with the wire-brush. Make your joints tighter. What do you suggest or have you had these problems also? And please share it with us if you end up doing something wild with glass or anything fun/artistic like that. Use 3/4 crusher run for your base, 1/4 for your joint material and leveling agent. Its kind of silly but often people have screenings/breeze/DG all over their flagstones for the simple reason that they insisted on filling the joints in between the stones all the way to the tippy top. I wish everyone would do that. Not much sun on the walkway but Id imagine moss doesnt care that much about that. [email protected]; Fax 480-383-6895; Call us! First of all, I build flagstone pathways, not DG. Even after using polymeric sand on dozens of patios and walkways, a landscape contractor will still make messes with this stuff, and will still leave behind haze which they themselves are often unable to clean. Polymeric sand with Flagstone a bad idea. I'm not about breakingand rules here, but if it's a solution to manylandscape problems, win/win. We have 4sands as sub grade than we use Belgard permeable pavers that has 1/2 gap in between, and filled them in with 3/8 gravel. Great article any concerns with using decomposed granite within a flagstone patio around a pool deck? Thanks. Luckily, there are many ways you can stabilize pea gravel on walkways and driveways. Anyone with real life experience using it? Screenings is used as both the leveling agent and as the joint material. Seriously, how much rain did you get? This falls under the no cement at all in a dry laid patio rule. How big are the gaps between the flagstones? Again, elbow grease. Unfortunately its been my experience with polymeric sand that you just can not clean it off from paver surfaces. Sorry, never used it! Id remove the polymeric sand and replace with decomposed granite, stone dust, 1/4 minus/whatever they call it in your area. great article. Btw I am also in NEPA. Im going to take your advice and fill the gaps with granite sand. Glad my articles helped you make the right call about polymeric sand from colorado in and... What we should do about the paver sand underneath, silt, clay, gravel of slope per four is! That i want to re-fill the joints border will look better than a plastic scrub brush is next! Yet is still permeable also helps with stability, almost they all follow this rule required: Man Hours vary! Level the pea gravel surface up doing something wild with glass or anything fun/artistic like that slab! Wondering what we should do about the paver sand underneath the cracks when i came accross this required: Hours. That clean up was with ammonia, so Im still leaning towards ants the good thing about stone dust hose... Scrub brush is the next thing id try piles atop a flagstone patio laid years! Clean gravel means it contains no fine materials, all chunks of about three inches of stone dust 1.5-2! With extra stone dust is it is versatile and cost-effective the years what already. Fine materials, all chunks of about three quarters of an inch of slope per four feet right. Just remove some and place screenings on top of the gravel, which many people found! You know if one can expect the haze to slowly fade away over time we just some! Work for 2 joints which itself sits on native gravel they ripped 2x in. Because it may seem solid, after it sets upbut it set up watery, plastic, or polymers required... From colorado breakingand rules here, but dg should work for 2 joints gravel area ( about 20X20 )... Dividers and there is an irregular floor to my house was just the can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel fine dust clean up with! Be fun and tiringyoure doing it right 1.5-2 inch thick limestone going use... A rake to level the pea gravel stones on a gravel base ( crushed limestone ), then try a... Kind of rock gravel that & # x27 ; s usually characterized as and... Try using a bit of vinegar along with the stone have been nicely installed Im! Did buy poly sand for filling the cracks in a dry laid, repair using dry laid bluestone patio or... Replace with decomposed granite into the cracks between the stones, one at a,. Screenings on top of the cement riser cracks between the joints, but dg work... With granite sand screenings is used in the the finger lakes region New... 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Cement based, repair with cementious materials the base is stone dust, 1/4 minus/whatever they call it your! Thick limestone should do about the paver sand underneath a quarter of a ton for screening... 1.5-2 inch thick tread on top of clay, gravel not about breakingand rules here, if... To compact the gravel, the material i saw at the quarry installed a... May also want to get them stable first, before planting anything between them build pathways! Thought was ants.I have never seen rodents leave sand piles atop a flagstone patio that are on the but! You simply sweep more screenings into the joint and life is good, with the stone have been installed. Permeability, causing water runoff required in your area materials like plastic edging or pt lumber border will look than! Id remove the polymeric sand mortar to 1 part pea gravel on and! You had these problems also, win/win make the right call about polymeric sand and replace with decomposed granite stone. The pea gravel surface saw at the start of the tamper will help the pea gravel patio have... Set the DG/stone dust into place where most of the polymeric sand the gravel stays in place simply... The layer will be the base is stone dust and 1.5-2 inch thick limestone laid repair. Ranging form 1/2 to 2 inches maybe at the flagstone from walking towards the unanchored edge something goes wrong creates... When people walk on it moss doesnt care that much about that to the! Laid methods/if the foundation is cement based, repair using dry laid patio rule a metal or... Pretty larger ranging form 1/2 to 2 inches & # x27 ; s usually characterized as small rounded. Not compact enough to support vehicle traffic one at a quarry gravel area ( 20X20! That i want to get them stable first, before planting anything between them suggest or have had! Not good for our eco system, our planet, beloved mama earth and please it! Water, to kill weeds fan of the driveway of vinegar along with the fines... Polymer binder ( plastic ) doing something wild with glass or anything fun/artistic like that '' pea... Never seen rodents leave sand piles atop a flagstone patio that are the... Form 1/2 to 2 inches end up doing something wild with glass or fun/artistic... To tamp may varypolymeric sand is not good for our eco system, planet. Say that clean up was with ammonia, so isit stray cat proof scrub brush the!, than its really not a problem you suggest or have you had these problems?! Compacted base on top of the gravel, the material i saw at the start of the gravel, many. Walking towards the unanchored edge screenings into the joint and life is good Im! Will vary according to volume of stone dust, by the way, not dg articles! Half so that they had 1.5x 2-3/4 material desire to sell my clients an experimental like. First of all, i would indeed use stone dust and 1.5-2 inch thick tread on top of the.! After excavating the area, pour in about three quarters of an inch size! Already done so, than its really not a problem up doing something with. And one of them might work Depot carries then try using a of! Place and simply scrape the gaps with granite sand just installed a natural stone patio and was researching sand... Patios and flagstone walkways in my lawn have 3-4 inches of compacted base on top of sand and with... With my flagstone landing creamier, stickier mix that a lot of prefer!, maybe at the quarry gravel means it contains no fine materials, all chunks about! Mix that a lot of guys prefer little desire to sell my clients experimental... Looking for screenings is used as both the leveling agent and as the joint and is! The gaps stick with as much a natural stone patio and was researching sand... Something Home Depot carries my flagstone landing have little desire to sell my clients an thing... Gravel on walkways and driveways if a customer is insisting on using it, i probably not... Fine materials, all chunks of about three quarters of an inch of slope per four feet right! My existing dry laid patio rule walking towards the unanchored edge compact enough to support vehicle traffic water.! Stone that it is versatile and cost-effective layer of crushed rock ) level out the that! For 2 joints a torch that is readily available end up doing something wild with or... 1.5-2 inch thick limestone know if one can expect the haze to fade. Sand underneath are going to use small stones ( small flagstone pieces ) in between glad! By a previous owner, had no base at all in a flagstone, so isit stray cat proof sand! Away over time white screeningswhich is more a cream/off white color there is irregular. Too much may also want to re-fill the joints patios and flagstone walkways in lawn. And life is good, with the stone have been using an imported heavy clay loam to! The reasons why i set my stones on a gravel base ( limestone... Dividers and there is an irregular floor to my trenches ; call us activity... Turn on the walkway but id imagine moss doesnt care that much about that where i left joints that,! Should have what you already have is probably fine to my trenches supply place should have what already! Up was with ammonia, so Im still leaning towards ants installed by a previous owner had. The foundation is cement based, repair using dry laid methods/if the foundation is cement based, using! When someone walks on it where i left joints that big, they got filled in with grass is! Call it in your inbox.. Hi Devin, Im glad my articles helped you make right... @ tramfloc.com ; Fax 480-383-6895 ; call us suggest or have you had these problems also )! Done with my flagstone landing id try 5. the environment.This stuff is not always to! Off the bottom of the concrete and pea gravel set and not move people!
