If, however, you can get an admin to permanently block the page from any further editing you may do so. [12], European ambassadors of that period called her la Rossa, la Rosa, and Roxelana, meaning "the Russian woman"[13] or "the Ruthenian one" for her alleged Ruthenian origins. If that is wrong, Wikipedia should never ever cite an interview source in any other article as well. :P Well, like I said, all these efforts prove nothing but if you are convinced read may latest comments on my last reply; "you may add the word slave to Origins if you are still convinced but must also use the term "possibly" along with it to maintain a NPOV." Born in Ruthenia (then an eastern region of the Kingdom of Poland, now Rohatyn, Ukraine) to a Ruthenian Orthodox priest, Hurrem was captured by Crimean Tatars during a slave raid and eventually taken to Istanbul, the Ottoman capital. Please see meaning of "Birinci Kadin" in whatever Ottoman Dictionary you like. [17] She did not spend her last years in poverty, as her stepson, Selim II, the new sultan after 1566, put her on a lavish salary. If you are, however, still convinced that only Peirce's book is authentic source for the Ottomans, try putting this "concubinage" information in Ottoman Empire in details as explained by Leslie and see the response of Turks and Ottoman followers by yourself. She wrote many love letters to Suleiman when he was away for campaigns. If you ask about Istanbul, the city still suffers from the plague; however, it is not like the previous one. Mustafa became verypopular in the region under the guidance of his mother. Likewise Abdullah Frres's children were not slaves by nature. I do NOT understand. Best:) - Worldandhistory (talk) 15:18, 30 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Mahidevran Sultan in Trke Bilgi = tr:Meahidevran Sultan in Turkish Wikipedia. In one of her letters, she wrote: Under his pen name, Muhibbi, Sultan Suleiman composed this poem for Hurrem Sultan: "Throne of my lonely niche, my wealth, my love, my moonlight. Hence it can be asserted that she held an very influential position in Suleiman's harem: according to Ottoman traditions, she was Suleiman's Chi Ba Kadn. Look up Idar of Karbardia, he did existed and like I said "even if there is a slightest possibility" then making a statement would be wrong. These princesses, were destined to be gifted (in other words sold) by their ruling fathers to their higher or equivalent ranking rulers, kings and grand Vazirs (ministers). After Valide Sultan's death, Mahidevran Sultan takes the lead of the harem. If Sultana cannot be used for a "Birinci Kadin" then Hatun should also not be used. Hrrem Sultan never left the capital to accompany her sons, and she became more and more precious for Suleiman, and afew years later they got married. WebAfter the death of Mustafa, Mahidevran lost her status in the palace as the mother of the heir apparent and moved to Bursa. Mustafa was later accused of causing unrest. In this article the sentence about Mahidevran's origin had been changed several times. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 22:51, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], The thing is, unlike yours, I'm not fabricating a theory! Also, she became an important symbol of how ottoman consorts never had a permanent position in Harem and politics as it was only after Mahidevran with whom the Ottoman started respecting their royal consorts, it is obvious, that when Hurrem Sultan was given such elevation the same time the mother of heir apparent was alive and living in the Harem, that Mahidevran was also considered as Sultan's family member and hence the title. She probably acted as the sultan's advisor, wrote diplomatic letters to King Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (r.15481572) and patronized major public works (including the Haseki Sultan Complex and the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse). Images of the chief consort emphasized her beauty and wealth, and she is almost always depicted with elaborate headwear. sultanas. It turned out to be a certain Said Perizad Temryukoglu. WebRoxelana was not strikingly beautiful, but she had a pleasing personality (her Turkish name, Hrrem, means joyful one), and she quickly made a special place for herself in the harem. On the contrary, I sympathize with Mahidevran Hatun. Life in a Sultans harem was not glamorous and it certainly wasnt about love. Mahidevran ga Who were her parents? Though Hurrem must have been called Sultana first, the Ottoman dynamics simply couldn't allow such discrepancy within the Harem that once the title "Sultan" is started being used for favorite wives, that they don't called the first favorite with the same title. Let's figure it out.#sultantv #ottomanempire #magnificentcentury #ottomanempirehistory Mahidevran and Suleiman had five children -- three sons and two daughters. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Hurrem remained in the sultan's court for the rest of her life, enjoying a close and relationship with her husband, and having six children with him, including the future sultan, Selim II. And for your info, they all married the sultan and were legal wives, and those that weren't married were called hatun. We have not seen another such example after 15th century of a Senior consort being not called Sultana. This article is literally the ONLY one in wikipedia to call a hatun a sultana. Later, Hurrem became the first woman to remain in the sultan's court for the duration of her life. During the start of 15th century, the Ottoman dynasty was taking over the territories of its rivals more rapidly than before. ehzade Mahmud (November 1512 - 29 October 1521); This page was last edited on 21 March 2021, at 10:11. At that time Mustafa was the third son of Suleiman, without significant importance. At his mothers funeral, Murad was supposed to remain in the palace during the funeral. People have done a great job depicting fake ottoman culture. Her full name was Glbahar Mahidevran Sultan 1 due to her great beauty; Glbahar means rose of the spring and Mahidevran means the most beautiful in all. She imprinted her seal and watched the council meetings through a wire mesh window. In a play entitled The Holy League, Titian appears on stage at the Venetian Senate, and stating that he has just come from visiting the Sultan, displays his painting of Sultana Rossa or Roxelana. And with all this research you are only proving yourself wrong because NONE OF YOUR SOURCES say that M was a Muslim Convert, rather, they say, Mahidevran, daughter of Abdullah. Here are some sources (regardless of their nature) they contradicts the motion that she wasn't called Sultan. I don't think the Turks would have been so quite and this web would have been still available if it wasn't authentic. Something that interests me is how a popular notion can sound very appealing. First of all, many claims as to what happened in the harem are comple I asked a simple question and you failed to answer because you cant. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 20:52, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], It is stated that kadins and hasekis carried equal rights in the harem, so why are you so passionate to call her sultana if she wasn't married to Suleyman? [20] Hurrem became the only partner of the ruler and received the title of Haseki, which means the favorite. You are not helping in maintaining the neutrality, rather imposing your opinions extracted from your sources. Learn more about merges. Hurrem later managed to become the Haseki Sultan or "favorite concubine" of the Ottoman imperial harem. The references you've cited present a clear inconsistency with defined Ottoman titles and therefore they are invalid.190.218.117.86 (talk) 16:57, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], This is the point, whether she was a main wife or not. She is still known and remembered today as the most politically influential Ottoman princess, and the only one to have served as Valide Sultan during her brother's reign. [44] This tragedy marks the first time the Ottomans were introduced on stage in France. The title of this page has to be changed and needs to be protected from any form of cultural erasure. [8] However it is clear,that Mahidevran Sultan also carried the title Sultan as she was the first main chief consort (Ba Kadn). [10] [11] Find a sensible answer please and then come back with your personal comments. It is clear by your statement that you're being subjective about this: you're looking for an excuse rather than solid facts to call Mahidevran a sultana. [49] Artists Titian, Melchior Lorich, and Sebald Beham were all influential in creating a visual representation of Roxelana. Popular culture calls her that way because in some theatre plays she's erroneously addressed like that, just as any work of FICTION. Raziye was born 1519, as daughter of sleyman and flane hatun. Whatever sources we can find, half of them supports the Hatun theory, the other half supports Sultan theory. She was the grandmother of Murad III. [1] Webmahidevran. Osmanl tarihi, Volume 2. During those decades the Venetian Republic was following the Ottoman dynastic news closely due to their close links with the empire. In her second letter to Sigismund Augustus, written in response to his letter, Hurrem expresses in superlative terms her joy at hearing that the king is in good health and that he sends assurances of his sincere friendliness and attachment towards Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent. Life in a Sultans harem was not glamorous and it certainly wasnt about love. This has to stop, no factual person will buy your theory. Address: Again, it's just my opinion I still oppose the change of title. 113.203.190.165 (talk) 02:19, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Why did popular culture assume, for example, that Hurrem was participant in the executions of Ibrahim Pasha and Mustafa? However, some argue that she has Albanian roots. [19] According to Necdet Sakaolu, a Turkish historian, these accusations were not truthful. She's only ever referred to as Mahidevran Khatun or Hatun in sources, see The Imperial Harem, pages 55, 61 and 367. [33] It is also rumored that Hurrem Sultan conspired against Mustafa with the help of her daughter and son-in-law Rustem Pasha; they wanted to portray Mustafa as a traitor who secretly contacted the Shah of Iran. All the facts have been laid out but you still want to call Mahidevran a sultana when she wasn't: she didn't legally marry Suleyman, nor was the mother of a sultan. She did not spend her last years in poverty, as her stepson, [41] Hurrem was also intelligent and had a pleasant personality. While "XXX son of Abdullah" maybe a son of a convert slave, you cannot say that Khalid son of Abdullah or Hussein son of Abdullah are also slaves. Timaru, 7910 Learn how your comment data is processed. I think it is obvious that the exception would have been made at that time for a non-Haseki consort to be called a Sultan. Her love of poetry is considered one of the reasons behind her being heavily favoured by Suleiman, who was a great admirer of poetry. [16]:131, Her joyful spirit and playful temperament earned her a new name, Hurrem, from Persian Khorram, "the cheerful one". This is your own point of view that just because she was called cariye she was of non-notable family. [9][10], Though Mahidevran Sultan may not have been a Haseki, she was the mother of ehzade Mustafa, the eldest surviving son of the reigning Sultan and the crown prince of the imperial throne. Our ancestors said that the plague goes away once the trees shed their leaves in autumn."[26]. In the Ottoman imperial family tradition, a sultan's consort was to remain in the harem only until her son came of age (around 16 or 17), after which he would be sent away from the capital to govern a faraway province, and his mother would follow him. Where are the administrators of this page anyway? Acting on Hurrem Sultan's orders, Rustem Pasha had engraved Mustafa's seal and sent a letter seemingly written from his mouth to Shah Tahmasb I, and then sent Shah's response to Suleiman. Magnificent century (Muhtesem Yuzy by I heart Duncan James. Because none of these people neither Ottomans nor foreign visitors were permitted into the inner circle of the imperial harem, which was surrounded by multiple walls, they largely relied on the testimony of the servants or courtiers or on the popular gossip circulating around Istanbul. That's very funny!!! WebMihrimah Sultan (1522 - January 25, 1578) was the daughter of the Ottoman Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent and his wife Hrrem Sultan. Hurrem eventually achieved power, influencing the politics of the Ottoman Empire. [18] According to Bernardo Navagero's report, as a result of the bitter rivalry a fight between the two women broke out, with Mahidevran beating Hurrem, which angered Suleiman. She did served as a "cheif consort" (bash Kadin) before Haseki Hurrem Sultan. [20] She pleads with the King to trust her envoy Hassan Aa who took another message from her by word of mouth. Hurrem has usually been held at least partly responsible for the intrigues in nominating a successor. I shall wait for your response until few days then revert your changes, if you are unable to prove that this "Abdullah" was indeed a slave and not a free person, in which case, M would have been a "gifted wife" (married to S not legally but rather tough Nikah 'urfi). I began this website in 2013 because I wanted to share these women's amazing stories. I'll sing your praises always [16], Hurrem's unprecedented rise from harem slave to Suleiman's legal wife and Ottoman Empress attracted jealousy and disfavor not only from her rivals in the harem, but also from the general populace. Hurrem and Mahidevran had borne Suleiman six ehzades (Ottoman princes), four of whom survived past the 1550s: Mehmed, Selim, Bayezid, and Cihangir. Interviews of "alleged descendant" are not reliable sources for an history article, and the burden of demonstrating their reliability falls upon the editor who want to introduce them, as is written at WP:INTERVIEWS. 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